Elliot—great post! Much of what you've laid out here, especially your thoughts on egregores, aligns with my own thinking on psychedelic encounters. But where you call them egregores, I've been thinking in terms of the Superorganic, a term coined by anthropologist Alfred Kroeber over a century ago now. For Kroeber, the Superorganic operates as a kind of autonomous entity in and of itself, existing above individual human actions, possessing its own causative power, and operating according to its own distinct laws that cannot be reduced into individual human actions.
To be honest, I hadn't encountered the term egregores before, and I suspect it might actually be more apt. I'm looking forward to digging into it a little more. But in my mind, egregores complements the Superorganic very well (or at least parallels it).
At any rate, I'm glad to see others are thinking along similar lines. I spend a lot of time thinking about and trying to understand my own psychedelic experiences without necessarily "rationalizing" them—but I can't help intellectualizing them at least. "What the f*ck is this?" is a question I seem to ask myself every time I trip, so thanks for this post and sharing your insights. This is great food for thought.
Hey Daniel, thanks for your comment. I'll check Kroeber out, the Superorganic sounds like a very useful perspective to add to the collection.
I think it's natural to try and rationalise our psychedelic experiences, but I think we need to do so from an 'emic' perspective - that is, describing the experience from within its own framework of understanding. Scientific perspectives are always going to be useful, but I think our goal as psychonauts is to find the proper linguistics of this emic perspective and go from there!
Explaining the entities encountered has been a challenge. Few can imagine unless they too have ventured into the psychedelic realm even then one's trip may be different from the other's trip even when under the influence of the same amount of substance. The egregore then becomes multi-faceted with each version of recollection this I have discovered in casual review of memorable trips shared with people. The illusion of forms transmuting into tangible visions that can be recalled has fascinated me to the extent of documenting a few via art. Some simple sketches so the vision was not lost. Multiple faces amongst the leaves of the trees engaged in their own conversations became hesitant to continue talking when I gazed upon them, returning my gaze as if I was interrupting them. Forms of consciousness from my mind or from the experiences engaged in during my trip. Baffling. The visuals I have created have helped, I have occasionally encountered other visuals that come close to capturing this type of active form manifestation of the psychedelic experience. Protozoan life force before me is a good analogy. Thanks.
Good job. However, the "West" also had a version of what you discuss -- but via Artistotle, not Plato . . . !!
Aristotelian *forms* are constructions of what have been called the "Inner Senses." Roughly, this is what Freud called the "unconscious" -- based on his training in Faculty Psychology by Franz Brentano.
Of which there are FOUR in Thomas Aquinas's formulation: Common Sense, Imagination, Cogitative Power, and Memory. This is the realm in which "altered" states operate, reflecting a neuro-chemical shift in the balance of these Faculties.
Aquinas discusses this throughout his work, but a concentrated version can be found at ST1:Q78:A4, "Whether the interior senses are suitably distinguished?" --
I'm getting more and more into forms as a concept (which is a funny tautology), but I'll admit my understanding of them is based more on Buddhist thought than Western. I've not read Aristotle or Aquinas so will add them to the ever expanding list. I'd rather start with Aristotle and go from there to Aquinas - would you recommend starting with Metaphysics or another of his works?
Elliot: My recommendation would be Aristotle's "Peri Psyche" (Greek, or "De Anima" in Latin, and "On the Soul" in English). The best translation is by Joe Sachs --
Elliot—great post! Much of what you've laid out here, especially your thoughts on egregores, aligns with my own thinking on psychedelic encounters. But where you call them egregores, I've been thinking in terms of the Superorganic, a term coined by anthropologist Alfred Kroeber over a century ago now. For Kroeber, the Superorganic operates as a kind of autonomous entity in and of itself, existing above individual human actions, possessing its own causative power, and operating according to its own distinct laws that cannot be reduced into individual human actions.
To be honest, I hadn't encountered the term egregores before, and I suspect it might actually be more apt. I'm looking forward to digging into it a little more. But in my mind, egregores complements the Superorganic very well (or at least parallels it).
At any rate, I'm glad to see others are thinking along similar lines. I spend a lot of time thinking about and trying to understand my own psychedelic experiences without necessarily "rationalizing" them—but I can't help intellectualizing them at least. "What the f*ck is this?" is a question I seem to ask myself every time I trip, so thanks for this post and sharing your insights. This is great food for thought.
Hey Daniel, thanks for your comment. I'll check Kroeber out, the Superorganic sounds like a very useful perspective to add to the collection.
I think it's natural to try and rationalise our psychedelic experiences, but I think we need to do so from an 'emic' perspective - that is, describing the experience from within its own framework of understanding. Scientific perspectives are always going to be useful, but I think our goal as psychonauts is to find the proper linguistics of this emic perspective and go from there!
Explaining the entities encountered has been a challenge. Few can imagine unless they too have ventured into the psychedelic realm even then one's trip may be different from the other's trip even when under the influence of the same amount of substance. The egregore then becomes multi-faceted with each version of recollection this I have discovered in casual review of memorable trips shared with people. The illusion of forms transmuting into tangible visions that can be recalled has fascinated me to the extent of documenting a few via art. Some simple sketches so the vision was not lost. Multiple faces amongst the leaves of the trees engaged in their own conversations became hesitant to continue talking when I gazed upon them, returning my gaze as if I was interrupting them. Forms of consciousness from my mind or from the experiences engaged in during my trip. Baffling. The visuals I have created have helped, I have occasionally encountered other visuals that come close to capturing this type of active form manifestation of the psychedelic experience. Protozoan life force before me is a good analogy. Thanks.
Elliot:
Good job. However, the "West" also had a version of what you discuss -- but via Artistotle, not Plato . . . !!
Aristotelian *forms* are constructions of what have been called the "Inner Senses." Roughly, this is what Freud called the "unconscious" -- based on his training in Faculty Psychology by Franz Brentano.
Of which there are FOUR in Thomas Aquinas's formulation: Common Sense, Imagination, Cogitative Power, and Memory. This is the realm in which "altered" states operate, reflecting a neuro-chemical shift in the balance of these Faculties.
Aquinas discusses this throughout his work, but a concentrated version can be found at ST1:Q78:A4, "Whether the interior senses are suitably distinguished?" --
https://www.newadvent.org/summa/1078.htm#article4
Thanks for the recommendations!
I'm getting more and more into forms as a concept (which is a funny tautology), but I'll admit my understanding of them is based more on Buddhist thought than Western. I've not read Aristotle or Aquinas so will add them to the ever expanding list. I'd rather start with Aristotle and go from there to Aquinas - would you recommend starting with Metaphysics or another of his works?
Elliot: My recommendation would be Aristotle's "Peri Psyche" (Greek, or "De Anima" in Latin, and "On the Soul" in English). The best translation is by Joe Sachs --
https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Memory-Recollection-Aristotle/dp/1888009179